S/390 install cd image?

[Patrick Finnegan]

Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I don't
have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to install
using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible with SuSE
and RedHat's S/390 distributions.

Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

Pat

[Gerhard Tonn]

Post by Patrick Finnegan
Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I don't
have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to install
using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible with SuSE
and RedHat's S/390 distributions.
Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

See http://www.debian.org/CD/ for details. jigdo should work fine.

Gerhard

[Patrick Finnegan]

Post by Gerhard Tonn

Post by Patrick Finnegan
Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I
don't have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to
install using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible
with SuSE and RedHat's S/390 distributions.
Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

See http://www.debian.org/CD/ for details. jigdo should work fine.

I can pretty much guaranteed that won't work on S/390, which would
explain the lack of offical netinst and business card ISOs for S/390.

I'm not stupid. :)

Pat

[Geoff O'Callaghan]

Post by Patrick Finnegan

Post by Gerhard Tonn

Post by Patrick Finnegan
Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I
don't have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to
install using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible
with SuSE and RedHat's S/390 distributions.
Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

See http://www.debian.org/CD/ for details. jigdo should work fine.

I can pretty much guaranteed that won't work on S/390, which would
explain the lack of offical netinst and business card ISOs for S/390.
I'm not stupid. :)

Well normally I would log onto the HMC as SYSPROG, select the LPAR, then
double-click on Load from CD-ROM.

You may be able to find more detailed information in the RHEL
installation guide for s/390 - look under documentation on RH website.
Would of course be nice if the Debian manual had the details, perhaps
you can feed your experiences back to the documentation developers?

-goc-

[Frans Pop]

(CCing this thread to the debian-boot list as that is where installer
development is coordinated)

Post by Patrick Finnegan
Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I don't
have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to install
using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible with SuSE
and RedHat's S/390 distributions.
Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

There currently are no S/390 CD's that can be used for installation, only
CD's containing packages.

We actually had no idea that it was possible to install from a CD on
S/390. We should be able to create an installation CD, but someone will
have to feed us the information on what's needed to make the CD bootable
and what drivers are required.

If the hercules S/390 emulator also supports booting/installing off CD (or
a CD image), information on how to do that would be very welcome too.

So, if you're interested on helping us realize this, you're very welcome.

Cheers,
FJP

[Gerhard Tonn]

Post by Frans Pop
(CCing this thread to the debian-boot list as that is where installer
development is coordinated)

Post by Patrick Finnegan
Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I don't
have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to install
using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible with SuSE
and RedHat's S/390 distributions.
Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

There currently are no S/390 CD's that can be used for installation, only
CD's containing packages.
We actually had no idea that it was possible to install from a CD on
S/390. We should be able to create an installation CD, but someone will
have to feed us the information on what's needed to make the CD bootable
and what drivers are required.
If the hercules S/390 emulator also supports booting/installing off CD (or
a CD image), information on how to do that would be very welcome too.
So, if you're interested on helping us realize this, you're very welcome.

The only thing missing on the first cd is the subdirectory /boot
containing the kernels, initrds and parmfiles. The source of the
debian-cd package contains a file tools/boot/woody/boot-s390, that has
the code to generate the necessary files for woody. This is supposed to
work for sarge as well using the current kernels and initrds.

Gerhard

[Adam Thornton]

Post by Frans Pop
(CCing this thread to the debian-boot list as that is where installer
development is coordinated)

Post by Patrick Finnegan
Is there a CD install image for debian s/390? I just acquired a G5
S/390 which I want to get Debian up and running on, and since I don't
have any other OS or tape devices on it, it'd be easiest to install
using the SE laptop CD drive, which I've heard is possible with SuSE
and RedHat's S/390 distributions.
Any towards doing this would be appreciated, even if it's just
instructions on how to build my own bootable S/390 CD. :)

There currently are no S/390 CD's that can be used for
installation, only
CD's containing packages.
We actually had no idea that it was possible to install from a CD on
S/390. We should be able to create an installation CD, but someone will
have to feed us the information on what's needed to make the CD bootable
and what drivers are required.
If the hercules S/390 emulator also supports booting/installing off CD (or
a CD image), information on how to do that would be very welcome too.
So, if you're interested on helping us realize this, you're very welcome.

If "Boot from CD" on G6 and earlier machines is simply treating it
like a 3422 tape device, then all you would need is an appropriate
TDF definition, such as

@TDF
kernel.debian fixed recsize 1024
parmfile.debian fixed recsize 1024
initrd.debian fixed recsize 1024
TM
EOT

I think this will work since this is basically how the VM "install
from CD" works. I don't have easy physical access to a machine with
an HMC I can try it on though.

After you've done that, then point the IPL at the "tape device" thus
defined, and it should IPL from it OK.

For zSeries things get a little tougher. The 3422 is no longer a
supported device, and the "boot from DVD" option appears to load an
image of the system (pretty much like a DCSS) into core, and then
transfer control to it. That's undocumented, but, again, if you
have, say, the z/VM 5.1 DVD, you can see what it appears to be doing,
although I don't know how or where you specify the load address.
There does exist a procedure to save a Linux kernel in such a way
that it can be loaded up in a DCSS, so if that's all there is to it,
you'd effectively create a RAM image of the machine's initial state,
load it, and transfer control to it.

Adam

[Patrick Finnegan]

Post by Adam Thornton

Post by Frans Pop
(CCing this thread to the debian-boot list as that is where
installer development is coordinated)

If "Boot from CD" on G6 and earlier machines is simply treating it
like a 3422 tape device, then all you would need is an appropriate
TDF definition, such as

<snip>

I just looked at how it was done on redhat... I downloaded RH7.1 ISOs to
take a look at. The relevant files are posted up at:
http://computer-refuge.org/deb-s390/rh71-s390/

So, you point the SE's "boot from CDROM/server" option at the redhat.ins
file in the above directory, which looks like it lists file names and
memory addresses to load them at. From what I see, it looks like the
three files (kernel, initrd, and parmfile) are basically the same as
what's used on a tape-based install.

Pat

[Frans Pop]

Post by Patrick Finnegan
So, you point the SE's "boot from CDROM/server" option at the
redhat.ins file in the above directory, which looks like it lists file
names and memory addresses to load them at. From what I see, it looks
like the three files (kernel, initrd, and parmfile) are basically the
same as what's used on a tape-based install.

We've found the old settings used during CD creation for Woody, and it
looks like it's not a major problem to implement this (especially with
the other helpful posts to this thread).

I plan to work on this soon.

Could you please file a wishlist bug against package debian-installer for
this request?

Cheers,
FJP

[Frans Pop]

Please add a cd-based install image for S/390, as detailed in this
http://lists.debian.org/debian-s390/2005/07/msg00024.html

I think I've managed to create a "bootable" CD image. It is available for
testing from [1]. Basically, I have revived the code that was already
available in Woody.
The primairy purpose of this image is to test if it boots. I may have made
mistakes building it which could cause an installation to fail later on.

Some remarks
Although it should now be possible to boot the installation off the CD,
the installation method is still basically network based as there is no
option to mount the CD and load installer components off it.
It should be possible to create a real CD-based installation, but that
would require some new d-i modules and a different initrd. I'm not sure
if that is worth the trouble though.

There are 2 files in /boot that should be usable:
- d390.ins
- d390.tdf
The first file is identical to the one that RedHat uses.

There are 2 other files that are provided as example (d390oco.ins and
d390oco.tdf). From the build scripts:
# The following is provided as an example. It will not work when the
# tape is emulated from the official Debian CD-ROM since the object-
# code-only-modules-ramdisk (oco.bin) is not included in the CD-ROM.

Some questions
There is also a "tape nolabel" kernel included on the CD, but that is not
referenced anywhere. Is that kernel useful at all?

I would still be very interested to know if it's possible to boot this CD
image in the hercules emulator :-)

[1] http://people.debian.org/~fjp/d-i/debian-testing-s390-netinst.iso

[Ivan Warren]

Post by Frans Pop
I would still be very interested to know if it's possible to
boot this CD
image in the hercules emulator :-)
[1] http://people.debian.org/~fjp/d-i/debian-testing-s390-netinst.iso

I'll give it a try later tonight (my time).. That's in approximatelly 3 or 4
hours from now..

Thanks,

--Ivan

PS : Rick Troth (on the marist linux-390 ml) did suggest it was possible
(tried) to make a CD bootable by making it visible as an FBA device (3370,
9336, etc..).. This of course would only apply to a few machines (MP3K
(possibly), P/390(definitelly) & Herc(definitelly)).. Also by making it
visible as an FBA device, besides from making it bootable, it makes it
mountable directly as a ISO9660 FS (although *switching* CDs would be a
problem).. Is this what you had in mind ? (but it would probably have no
benefit for any of the more modern z/8xx,z/9xx or z/9 machines)..

[Frans Pop]

Post by Frans Pop
I think I've managed to create a "bootable" CD image. It is available
for testing from [1]. Basically, I have revived the code that was
already available in Woody.
The primairy purpose of this image is to test if it boots. I may have
made mistakes building it which could cause an installation to fail
later on.

I've just managed to boot the CD successfully using Hercules:
- loopmount the iso on /cdrom
- start hercules
- ipl /cdrom/boot/d390.ins

And it only took me 2 hours to find this ridiculously simple option :-/

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[Patrick Finnegan]

Post by Frans Pop

Please add a cd-based install image for S/390, as detailed in this
http://lists.debian.org/debian-s390/2005/07/msg00024.html

I think I've managed to create a "bootable" CD image. It is available
for testing from [1]. Basically, I have revived the code that was
already available in Woody.
The primairy purpose of this image is to test if it boots. I may have
made mistakes building it which could cause an installation to fail
later on.

...

Post by Frans Pop
[1] http://people.debian.org/~fjp/d-i/debian-testing-s390-netinst.iso

Now that I'm finally getting around to testing this on my real S/390 G5,
the file has disappeared, and I can't find it anywhere. :/

Pat

[Frans Pop]

Post by Patrick Finnegan

Post by Frans Pop
[1] http://people.debian.org/~fjp/d-i/debian-testing-s390-netinst.iso

Now that I'm finally getting around to testing this on my real S/390
G5, the file has disappeared, and I can't find it anywhere. :/

Yes, I deleted it as I dislike keeping my home directory cluttered with
unused things...

As the builds for weekly images for testing has now been resumed, the
option to ipl from CD should now also be available in this image:
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/s390/debian-testing-s390-binary-1.iso

I'd be very happy if you could test that.

Cheers,
FJP

Note: you may run into a problem during partitioning because current
versions of parted do not support DASD. See also:
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstallerToday

[Patrick Finnegan]

Post by Frans Pop

Post by Patrick Finnegan

Post by Frans Pop
[1]
http://people.debian.org/~fjp/d-i/debian-testing-s390-netinst.iso

Now that I'm finally getting around to testing this on my real S/390
G5, the file has disappeared, and I can't find it anywhere. :/

Yes, I deleted it as I dislike keeping my home directory cluttered
with unused things...
As the builds for weekly images for testing has now been resumed, the
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/s390/debian-testing-s390-binary-1
.iso

The files to do so aren't in the ISO.

Pat

[Patrick Finnegan]

Post by Patrick Finnegan

Post by Frans Pop

Post by Patrick Finnegan

Post by Frans Pop
[1]
http://people.debian.org/~fjp/d-i/debian-testing-s390-netinst.is
o

Now that I'm finally getting around to testing this on my real
S/390 G5, the file has disappeared, and I can't find it anywhere.
:/

Yes, I deleted it as I dislike keeping my home directory cluttered
with unused things...
As the builds for weekly images for testing has now been resumed,
the option to ipl from CD should now also be available in this
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/s390/debian-testing-s390-binary
-1 .iso

The files to do so aren't in the ISO.

I got this to work (well, to IPL anyways; my S/390 needs some more
configuring still in order to be able to install completely), using the
redhat.ins and files from the debian tape-based install images.

Pat

[Frans Pop]

Post by Patrick Finnegan

Post by Frans Pop
As the builds for weekly images for testing has now been resumed, the
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/s390/debian-testing-s390-binary-
1 .iso

The files to do so aren't in the ISO.

You are right. This first build was done with an old version of the CD
building scripts. Today new ISOs became available. I have checked that
these do contain the needed files.

Cheers,
FJP